Electrical 240v/12v use

The 240 v and 12 v system are totally isolated from each other, the 240 needs a power station or genny plugged in for those points/appliances to work...................the 12v system needs the batteries and ideally solar panels to keep them charged, you will find your lighting and possibly fans will run off 12v, you can plug in your phones to charge, as well as your TV but may need to add some USB and cig sockets to make it easier to run multiple devices.
There are a few threads around here which have some great detail and pics on adding 12v sockets, the best way for phones are USB sockets I think.......................ask away, there's no dumb questions on here.

if you go down the route of an Inverter, you will need a "Pure Sine Wave" if you want to charge Laptops and some camera
- only because it gives a better charge to them (without damaging their battery)
something like this would be ok

you can get a normal sine wave inverter for less, but may damage Laptop if you use it to charge

on my Flamingo, I had a 4000W Pure Sine Inverter fitted, with 2 power points (made them brown, so you could tell easy they were not 240V)
for charging phones, and laptops

I still have to get my "round tuit" for the Panda

I've found the inverter I have to be inefficient, probably because it changes the 12V up to 240V and then its down converted to get what laptops use (in my case 19v) or 24V for my TV..

Jaycar has the above. I've got two..one for the laptops and one for the TV...

Haven't had any problems with laptops apart from one where it knows that the charger isn't OEM so it runs the laptop but wont charge the battery (I've been told that it's possible to deactivate this feature on the laptop but haven't bothered trying).

Great little device and worth while getting one for running low amp devices.

My camera and Makita batteries I've bought 12V cig plug chargers for. The Makita wont charge a battery unless the solar is charging because it has a 13.5V cut-in.The Makita is for the drill (winding up/down stands), vacuum cleaning (better than a dustpan), blower (cleaning campsites or giving the fire a get goin, chainsaw (for firewood), torch and, portable USB power supply...The Camera charger cost $15 with a 5 weeks delay from China.

Make sure you put in a couple extra 12V sockets and 2.1Amp USB sockets.

The above ideas should give you the right direction. I agree that if you can get a 12V or USB charge / power option that is the best. A list of what you want to use without a Power Station / Generator and the appropriate power option 12V adapter, USB or inverter will allow you to size each of these options.

My thoughts are for:

1. USB and inverters make sure that if they are not in use they can be turned off or have minimal current draw (so that you do not waste battery power);
2. Inverters circuits (as stated in previous posts) need to be separated / isolated so there is no possibility of feeding power back to the normal 240V and electrocuting people. I believe other threads also suggest power points being of different colour so you can tell what you are plugged into;
3. For inverters that are wired into socket you should use an electrician / qualified installer and you should also use a separate leakage residual current device as it is not covered by the external protection circuit, which needs correct earthing.

For the over engineered options (and not suggested unless you have a specific or special need) it is possible to setup systems that will manually or automatically switch power from Inverter to external 240V and still maintain isolation. With these systems those with switches and relays may cause an interruption to power, where as other more expensive systems can switch between 240V systems with different phase angles (not synchronised) with no interruption to power. Then you can go the UPS (Un-interruptible Power Supply) options which essentially is a battery charger, battery and inverter that runs in that sequence and if there is no external power uses the battery.

Craig and Leanne said:

Rookie question but I'm starting tk het confused with powering the van.
We have the 14ft with 2 batteries and 150watt solar panel. The question is can I use the normal power points to use things like chargers etc or do i need to add 12v points to do this? I know you can't use 240V for toasters or kettles or aircon without a generator while free camping (or use other means) but not sure about about things that don't draw alot of power?
Thanks Craig

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Agree with other suggestions.

Unless you want to spend lots of $$$ I'd suggest you do some basic research on what your 12v needs will be.

and what AC powered items you want powered when off 240v and on 12v only.

Then you'll have some idea of what to do and if you'll need to do it!

Eg camera battery will last a few days without charging so if you need more, consider a spare battery. $25?
Laptop...will really only hold a charge when powered by 12v rather than increase the charge. Do you need to use it when off grid? If so, how many hours do you get from the current battery.
Two batteries can easily be kept charged with a simple solar setup....have a look at this possibility
iPads etc are easily charged in 12v socket, same with phones etc

I would guess you can do all you want, given your current setup, for less than $200....cabling, sockets, adaptors, charge cables etc.If you want/ need more and can stand generators (I can't but that's my preference) you're looking at $1000 plus for one that does the job and doesn't upset neighbours.

So....if you list what you'll need to keep charged and provide power for.....we can make some specific suggestions.

Obviously, we're happy to help but you need to know your specific needs first.

I have USB sockets in my ute off both engine and aux batteries so can charge stuff while driving or parked, easy option.

You cheapskate....I've got 8!

• Gps
• Voltmeter...I'm too lousy to buy a built in one
• Phone 1 & 2
• iPad 1
• iPad 2
• Samsung 1 &2
• iPod
• Spare ....to give it a rest...or for camera battery ..or for AAA battery charger

But only drawing from the second battery, isolator protected

Now, when I think of it, all of those can be charged within van as well. We usually have 4 12v sockets, some two outlet 2.1amp plugs so all can be kept ticking over.

It's not quite spaghetti junction.......but it all works fine. Only issue I've had is with charging iPads....they definitely need 2.1 plugs.

Mine in the van feed off separate circuits, 2 android phones, TV, Satellite STB, tablet run off 12v and the laptop will charge from a portable 400w inverter which is just for it and cam batteries, that way can plug it into Ute or Van, don't have any need for any other inverter, if desperate for coffee machine will fire up the Honda .

You win.

I admit defeat!

Sounds like a good setup....you must have found more things than me that you bought/ kept in the shed for a time you might need them.

I envy you the coffee machine option but we've now got one of the Bellini models.....no 12v or 240v power needed.

As you may have noticed @Craig and Leanne we keep your thread at the top to encourage more replies/advice to your question with just slight wanderings off topic.....................

I assure you @Dobbie it is the cheapest and easiest, all my mods have to pass the KISS test as when I go away I don't want to be stuffing around and if it don't work I bin it...............

It's not as hard as it seems, just a matter of looking around in back of cupboards for the right wires to pick up or running a cable from the Setek. Running from the CIG plug on the TV socket is very limiting.

Craig and Leanne said:

Thanks guys. I guess as you suggest I really need to think about what I need to do with 12v. I need to get some fans for the kids bunks but from the looks of it they are hard wired to the battery (sirico). And really its only ipods etc to charge for kids on the limited times they will be on them so I guess I could get a cig socket charger wuth a few outlets.... might be cheaper than sockets installed..

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Wow I just noticed you're from yackandandah! I watched the 'back roads" episode on there and put it on my list to visit, if possible.

Anyway...on to 12v stuff...you have batteries, you have solar, you now need to keep a lookout for 12v fans. I have a feeling Supercheap have them on special at the moment...Sirocco? If it's not urgent just watch out for specials.

and you need some charging outlets for the other stuff? Just buy the plug in sockets...eBay...for whatever you need.

I'm assuming your two batteries are ok and charged ...keep them charged ....and your solar is setup to charge the batteries?

Craig and Leanne said:

Thanks guys. I guess as you suggest I really need to think about what I need to do with 12v. I need to get some fans for the kids bunks but from the looks of it they are hard wired to the battery (sirico). And really its only ipods etc to charge for kids on the limited times they will be on them so I guess I could get a cig socket charger wuth a few outlets.... might be cheaper than sockets installed..

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I got some 12v plug in fans with switch and a clamp, they even oscilate from Ebay for $5 or something. If your putting in new 12 sockets use some decent size wire incase ya ever plug a fridge (more power use) in. notice Jayco are pretty tight with size of their cable.

Final from me "Just go out and do some runs and see what you need, cheaper and easier way to sort things out, Big Mal ( my 21ft Rig) is still getting little mods done, fine tuning a far better option than trying to over think what you MAY need better to find out what you ACTUALLY require...."